meet our neighbor

Ms. Janet Baxter is…

Transcription

Janet

Hello everybody, my name is Janet Baxter. I am very close to 59 years old. I think this is a wonderful opportunity to talk about growing up in the Joseph Avenue area. Thank you for having me, Almeta.

Almeta

You're welcome, Janet.

Janet

This is just a great opportunity because I absolutely love my upbringing. I was born and raised in the Hanover Houses, which was a housing project that had 300 families. I was just talking about how we didn't know how blessed we were back then because within the Hanover Houses, it was definitely a community.

We had a cafeteria place where we went to have hot breakfast. Hot breakfast in the mornings. Then we had the Baden Street Settlement, which was right there to help with other needs next door. There was a daycare in 20 Vienna. There was a grocery store in the Hanover Houses, and Anthony L. Jordan Health Center got started first in the Hanover houses. It was definitely a community and we were definitely supported. And I think that's why I grew up so well, so grateful, open to love and support, is because I felt it early on in the projects.

Some say it might've been a ploy to get all black people, give them cheap rent and give all black people a place to stay long as they stay together. Some say that was the ploy, but my upbringing was special. I mean, I saw a lot that I shouldn't have seen once the Hanover houses began to go down, but we didn't start that way.

Almeta

Thank you. That's what I want to talk about, the community. What made it special, especially you being born and raised there? What made it special to little Janet when she was elementary, junior high school?

Janet

How they instilled that you can make it work with little. Nobody knew in the projects, none of us children knew in the projects that we were supposed to be poor because—

Almeta

Everybody was in the same boat.

Janet

Exactly. But I'm talking about the support. For the mothers that's working, you just go to the next building, drop your child off, and then your older kids are able to go get breakfast and then go to school. Every morning. Then, when I began to get older in the projects it was definitely going down. It was deteriorating. It became like crime central. It was things like pee in the elevator or—it started going down, but the values, that sense of community, that sense of community…

Almeta

It helped shape you and mold.

Janet

Absolutely.

Almeta

It helped shape and mold me to come from Buffalo, where I was born and raised. My mother and the four of us kids, we had been homeless since I was seven years old. Now, homeless back in the 50’s was definitely different than here. What homeless meant was, Mommy couldn't afford to rent a place so we would go and stay with Miss So and so, we stay with this family, we stay with this relative, or whatever. And, never knowing where there would be a home, to come to Hanover Houses to live in building six with my grandmother Ms. Vivian Wilson and her husband Black Harry Wilson who ran the numbers. They had four kids, my mother had four kids, there's eight of us kids all sleeping in that one double bed cuz there was only two beds.

Janet

There was a lot of large families in the Hanover Houses.

Almeta

Yes. Yes, and to me, it was normal. I was just happy to have a roof over my head and happy to be with Nanny. That's what she told me to call her. I said, “Nanny? You want me to call you nanny? Is that some kind of goat?” “I ain't no goat, baby. I ain't no goat. Just call me Nanny.” There's so many beautiful families.

Janet

And it wasn't rare either back then that the father stayed in the house. It was not rare.

Almeta

Almost everybody had a daddy in the house.

Janet

Matter of fact, almost, that's how the large families, it was mama, daddy, and all the kids. I'm the youngest out of seven. But I just have to really touch on going back to the sense of community. I think during these times we need more, these children need more, support than ever. If we could get back to the mentality of supporting until “You can do better, you know better.” That's what I grew up with and that's what we need to get back to more than ever. And for older people to acknowledge the younger people, we need to get back to that.

Almeta

And for younger people to actually honor the elders, because it used to be, you didn't call nobody by their first name, you put that handle, Miss.

Janet

Absolutely

Almeta

And if it was an elder, you listened to them like they were your family. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I hear you on that. The point that you made about sticking with someone—thank you, Spirit—sticking with someone until they were able to make it, because a lot of times now with these social programs, you got three months, you got six months, you got a year, and you're supposed to have turned everything around—a lifetime of trauma. You're supposed to turn everything around in a few weeks or 90 days or whatever. Come on. That's algorithms. That's not human. It takes people a while.

Janet

It was a village, and it takes a village. Nowadays, kids play with technical—you know, but we would get out there in the middle of the circle, now remember 300 families, so basically, it's 300 mama's watching me. Like I said, people were married back then. So, it was that sense of community to me, that's why I am the way I am now. I'm not really involved in political or community stuff, but I support.

Almeta

And I can feel you. I can feel your energy. I can feel your concern. I can feel your wanting things to be better. And for me, it's not necessarily getting back, but it's moving toward something better.

Janet

And we do need a lot of support. And I don't feel like a minority, you know, and it's because I'm whole. I grew up with, like I said, 300 families in the projects. Now that's 300 mothers watching you.

Almeta

And they all have the same values.

Janet

So, that's why we grew up respectful, that's why we grew up believing that we needed to help one another. It was big for me.

Almeta

That's the way we do things.

Janet

I was born in ‘65, Hanover was torn down in ‘81 or ‘80. I moved to William Warfield Drive.

Almeta

Yes, and that's still Northeast Rochester and those are the new townhouses.

Janet

So I was there my whole life, up until I graduated high school.

Almeta

Were you at Franklin?

Janet

No, Monroe.

Almeta

Monroe, all right.

Janet

How do you think we're gonna get back to that because that's one of my purposes.

Almeta

I don't know that I have an answer. What I do feel is important is that the young people engage more heart to heart instead of digital. To me, the digital is taking away our humanity. And that's just me.

Janet

That's exactly how I feel.

Almeta

I see children who will engage with a little notebook or cell phone with more energy and spirit than they do with another human being. That's the end of the human race if we can no longer connect with one another. I can't connect with you unless I see you on a little screen? Oh, that's real, but you ain't real. I'm preaching, pontificating, but yeah. Having the young people understand that there is a place for this technology, and what's more important is that we learn to connect with each other.

Janet

The social skills.

Almeta

Just heart to heart. To be able to have the children understand that it's okay to be angry, it's okay to be sad, it's okay to feel left out, just so long as you express it in—I don't want to use the word appropriate, but just express it, rather than keep it bottled down where it just comes out sideways.

Janet

Absolutely.

Almeta

The places that we young people could go and talk with adults, about what's really going on with us, safe spaces. Schools, teachers.

Janet

I was just gonna say that's why I'm going back to community because we had Baden Street Settlement.

It wasn't like, I didn't see a lot of drug addiction. I didn't see it. The benefit of being raised in Hanover was that I knew the good side and the bad side, so I feel like I could sit down with the president and first lady, and I feel like I could talk to a pimp.

I joke about my ghetto side, but that's what they called the Hanover Houses. The ghetto side. I joke about my ghetto side, but my upbringing was so valuable to me. When I did start to see drug addiction and Hanover started to go down, it wasn't something that I was interested in.

Almeta

Because you already knew better.

Janet

Right. Some of my friends did go that way. But, it was valuable lessons in Hanover. When it became dangerous, it just was, you know, we have a way of adapting.

Almeta

Exactly. We always do. And it was time. I mean, they had been standing for quite some time, and it was time.

Janet

I remember my mother saying we're gonna get an urban renewal check to move and they're gonna tear the projects down.

I wrote a play in 2003 about the projects. Did it at Nazareth College. I'm writing another one called Project Girls: Stories out of Hanover. I'm doing that and I just can't stress enough how much the community has something to offer. It was no judgment. Like everybody needed help in some kind of way, and it was set up for us to succeed. Really.

Almeta

And there was no shame in asking or accepting help. There was no shame in it because everybody was in the same boat.

Janet

I remember when—Do you remember, Almeta, the food truck that used to bring out boxes with peanut butter and the best cheese, oh my God, ever? And rice.

Almeta

There was the canned meat.

Janet

Yeah, the canned beef!

Almeta

There was beef and then there was something almost like a spam. There was the flour, there was the powdered milk.

Janet

I hated that powdered milk.

Almeta

The cheese. The big cheese, big ol' block of cheese. And was it margarine? What was it? Butter?

Janet

Butter.

Almeta

Sugar. There was a truck and I remember, standing with my aunt, and my grandmother, and my mom at the distribution place. All kind of people in there.

Janet

Absolutely.

Almeta

All kind of people, white, black.

Janet

No shame.

Almeta

Everybody just standing there on a Saturday morning waiting to pick up their box.

Janet

And these aren't people that just sat home. Let me just say that.

Almeta

No, these were working people. Working class.

Janet

Working class people, the whole Hanover was. I talk a lot about Hanover vs. the Northeast. I'm sorry, but—

Almeta

No, it's okay because Hanover was a linchpin of the Northeast. Talk about it, baby.

Janet

So again, look at what we had to offer, but like we said, it's okay to need help, it was okay to need help. Nowadays—

Almeta

Yeah, nobody wants anybody to know that they doing bad. Everybody want to act like they got television lives, or movie lives. No, that's living a lie.

Janet

Why do you think support helps? Why do you think needing something or—why does support, why does it work? It worked in Northeast, is what I'm trying to say. I feel like a success story, because we had so many things in place for us to succeed. So I'm just trying to figure out why does that work?

Brandon

Can I put my 2 cents in? To each their own, the support works because someone who says, “Hey, I have this debilitating disease, I need more support.” And the community says, “Okay, we will give you more support.” Or the person who says, “I can give more support, but I still need a little bit of help.” And the community says, “Okay, we'll give you a little bit of help.” And there's no questions asked.

Janet

It was successful. I'm telling you, I'm far from the great life, but I am so blessed to have grown up in the Northeast area of Rochester. I am just blessed.

Almeta

There was something about the, the word is called ethos, and what it simply means is, the way we do things. The way we do things. Northeast Rochester, especially Hanover Houses, had this community ethos, as Brandon just illustrated. I need a little help, but I can help somebody else.

I'm thinking specifically of the stores where my mother could go and say, “I don't have enough to feed my kids, can you help me out?” The store owner would say, “Yeah, just take what you want and pay me later,” or they would say, if they really knew what your situation was, “Just take what you want, don't worry about it, just pay me when you can,” or “just take it for now. I was going to throw it away anyway, just take it.” And it's a way of acknowledging that they're a human being, that they have value, and that you really want to help them, but you don't want to lord it over them, “I got this, and you don't." No, it's “I hear you. I feel you.” You're a woman, you got kids. I understand. Just take what you need. I remember the furniture stores where you could go and pick out a bedroom set and pay $5 a week.

Janet

Northside Furniture.

Almeta

Thank you. And don't forget Kittelberger's. Because Kittleelbeer, Jewish man, he married a pretty black woman.

Janet

Yes, he did, and they had six sets of twins.

Almeta

Thank you. And Pam got a recreation center named after her because her maiden name is Pamela Kittelberger and she married Trent Jackson. They are products of Northeast. Trent Jackson was an Olympic medalist in running. But I remember when I saw Mrs. Kittelberger. That was a pretty black woman. I mean, just chocolate, chocolate, chocolate black. She had long hair.

Janet

Fancy lady.

Almeta

And it wasn't no rig. It was hair down her back, and she was shaped like a model, and just elegant. That Jewish man said, “I love that little girl there.” And he married her.

Janet

And they lived in the projects with six sets of twins.

Almeta

He married her and they had money. His family was pissed, but he's like, “I love this woman.” And they stayed married till the end of their lives.

Janet

Sure did.

Almeta

Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. Now, that's community.

Janet

I remember times when me and my mom would go to Errol's Market on—

Almeta

Errol's Market on North Street! Thank you! I couldn't remember the name!

Janet

And then there was Amalfi's on Portland.

Almeta

Oh, Amalfi's on Portland. Yes! Oh, Lord.

Janet

And so my mother and I would go to Amalfi's and Errol's market to get her food stamps. It's nothing, everybody did it, and my mother worked, and the support was still in place. Then my father got sick, but it was support. It was set up, I can't keep saying this enough, it was set up to succeed. It really was.

Almeta

Yeah, and the helping agencies were really helping.

Janet

That's it.

Almeta

They were really helping.

Janet

They weren't just shuffling papers.

Almeta

Exactly. Exactly.

Janet

They made it work. You remember Ms. Mildred Johnson?

Almeta

Hello, I did a one woman show on her which was called, Telling Our Story. That was in 2000.

Janet

She had short gray hair, too.

Almeta

Yes, indeed. And I was scared to death of her cause she would see me, “Almeta Whitis, Almeta Whitis, you gotta come here, let me talk to you, you gotta do something for the community.” I'm like, oh lord, Milton Johnson after me, let me run, cause, she was so tough.

Janet

A friend of my mother's.

Almeta

And, committed to the community.

Janet

Oh yeah!

Almeta

When young men had to go to court, and she'd go to court and talk to the judge and say “Don't put them, they can't afford the bail. So just release them in my custody. I'll make sure they come back for their hearing.” And she always did that. And she took those young men and put them to work. And taught them values. And all of them showed up, they showed up for their hearing.

Janet

That's what I want to get back to.

Almeta

Yes, when we had people in the community that put community first. Not about making sure I have the latest gadget or the best clothes or how my nails, and my weave. Oh, Lord, please. Oh, my eyebrows. And I'm like, Lord, have mercy. What happened to these fake people?

Janet

We always had something to do. There was Baden Street daycare that took us out to Mendon Ponds every day. We had our lunch out there. That's where the camp was run, for free. No problem. My first little job, I was a camp counselor. It was just so much that was offered.

Almeta

Children had something to look forward to when they're in the little pre-camp, and you can look ahead and see their sisters, and brothers, and their cousins. And then up in here, and then you're up in there. Oh, and I can get a job when I get older. When I get 14, I can get my little work permit, and that means I can have a job.

Janet

That's what I'm saying, CETA was in place. I was 14 with a CETA job and they sent me to Burroughs Corporation. I worked at Burroughs Corporation at 14 years old in the office.

Almeta

Go ahead, girl. On the job training.

Janet

So everything was just set up the right way.

Almeta

And also don't forget, James McCuller, ABC the Neighborhood News Corps. That was my first job. Actually, my first job was Baden Street Settlement, but when I got older.

Janet

And the Mighty Liberators! The Drum and Bugle Corps!

Almeta

And the children learned to play instruments.

Janet

My brother!

Almeta

And march in the band. They would be in the Memorial Day Parade. We'd be in parades in the community. Oh my goodness. And don't forget about the Jackson Jills. The Yanks, I mean, they were the bougie ones. But still, well, they did. We had our different stratas in the black community.

Janet

Yeah families started moving out of Hanover And rightly so

Almeta

First of all, thank you for letting us come to your home an hour later than we said we was coming and Thank you Personally because you brought back a lot of The names of things that I couldn't remember Errol Food Market and the other one, Amalfi's. You're just jogging this almost 80 year old brain to remember the specifics.

Janet

We had a library.

Almeta

Come on. I used to be in that library every day.

Janet

We had a library just up the street, the fish market just up the street.

Almeta

I loved that fish market.

Janet

Jack's fish market for many, many years. Right up the street. He was a very giving man. You couldn't go in there and say you were hungry without him—

Almeta

Pulling out some fish, take it home. Take it home to your mama.

Janet

Right. And then, was it Schmitz Meat Market? We had Marine Midland Bank. This is all in the Northeast area. Every place that I'm naming, we were able to walk to.

Almeta

Exactly. You didn't need a car.

Janet

There was the wash house that you could walk to. There was a liquor store. I can't, this is bringing back so much because it worked!

Almeta

The Cotton Club?

Janet

It worked! Yes! It worked! We gotta get back to this. And so, I'm doing Project Girls—

Almeta

We gonna move forward into it. So it's Project Girls. So we gotta look for that in 2025? When is it gonna go? Or in the fall of 2024?

Janet

The fall of 2024.

Almeta

Oh Janet, I'm so pleased that you're carrying the torch. You're carrying the torch. And whatever I can do to help with my old behind. Whatever I can do to help.

Janet

You can do something. You can do something. You still got a lot of spunk. I want to also thank you, Almeta, and I want to thank Myra, Reverend Myra Brown. I wanted to make sure that I acknowledge her. Give us our roses while we're here, because she's working hard on the Northeast Area Initiative to make it, and I believe that she secured a grant. So, I just wanted to talk about Myra. She's my friend. I knew her actually, when we were growing up.

Katie

Does she work at Spiritus?

Janet

She's the head pastor. I go there sometimes. That's the church I like.

Almeta

I did something with U of R dance professors there, maybe five years ago, six years ago.

Janet

She's a wonderful woman. I thought of her because I thought of the work that she's doing.

I really thank you, Almeta.