Almeta

Where did you live or work? And that's another thing with Dr. Freddie being a mentor to two or three generations of young black people.

Midge

Yes.

Almeta

What years did you live there? And, you grew up there?

Midge

No

Almeta

you came as an adult?

Midge

Yes I married in 1957, and we moved on Skuse Street the same year, ‘57, until he passed. And then in 1974, when he passed, I moved into the Harro East Building

Almeta

How did the community and the spaces show you care? How did they care for you? The other thing is, what did Northeast Rochester teach you? And then, what holds a dear memory?

We're here today in the home of...

Midge

Midge Thomas. I am Midge Thomas, I'm a Rochesterian who lived in the northeast area of the city. We moved over there in that area in 1957. The same year that Dr. Freddie Thomas and I got married. We were very interested in the area because it seemed to be a community neighborhood and it may not have been the ideal space in the beginning, but we became very friendly and pleasantly associated with the area.

There's a lot of businesses in the area. There was good neighbors. One of the neighbors was Ruby and Willie Harvey. They were very friendly and they used to watch us entertain the people going and coming. We were the first ones in Rochester who used to bring diplomats from Africa and that was exciting to our neighbors.

But anyways, Freddie said it's not the neighborhood, it's who lives in the neighborhood. And what you can do is to try to upgrade it or whatever, have your Influence of making the neighborhood where you would like to have it.

Almeta

All right. All right. So can you share with us one incident, one happening that has stayed with you?

Midge

The thing that stayed with me was the idea that there was a—in that area, because of the way the people lived, we knew each other. I knew people around the corner, I knew the storekeepers. I was interested in the churches, there's a lot of churches in that area. In fact, there still is a lot of churches in the Northeast area. There is the Dr. Freddie Thomas School that was built in 1995. That's in the Northeast area. There's Conea association there. There's I think the North-

Almeta

NEAD—north, east, area development.

Midge

And there's Baden Street

Almeta

Baden Street Settlement

Midge

Baden Street has been there for years, so that's been a thriving part of the city, the Northeast area. People think that there's not much, but there's a lot going on that people are not aware of. And I think sometimes we need to be more—know what's happening.

Almeta

More informed.

Midge

More informed because, these are the areas that people don't want to talk about. They want to say the Northeast area is not thriving or not important to the city of Rochester. It is important and there's not that much crime. There is crime there but, it's not the major crime area and that's important for people to think. The fact that we have the churches is very important because on Sunday morning, this is where people get their strength to do the right thing. And even though they're storefront churches it's saving somebody's life.

Almeta

Thank you. Lots of little storefront churches.

Midge

That's right.

Almeta

Some of them had jack leg preachers.

Midge

That's right. That's right. That's right. That's where Aenon grew out of.

Almeta

Thank you. Dr. William Warfield, his family's from Aenon.

Midge

That's right. One of the largest churches in Rochester is Aenon, Reverend Greer.

Brandon

Can I ask a question? Maybe just because I'm young, I've never heard of a storefront church. What is a storefront church?

Midge

A little store, maybe maybe the size of this apartment.

Brandon

Mm hmm.

Midge

The space wise-

Brandon

Okay, so it's not like a-

Midge

For small boutique shops or beauty shops, a lot of beauty shops now, are a small space for people that's what storefront churches are. You may have 25 or 30 or whatever members. It's where the minister has a calling that he has a message to give. So, he will ask his friends to join him, and they start a little—it could be in the house, in the living room. And when it gets to be five, or ten, or fifteen, they move out, and they have what they call a storefront. Now, these storefronts are, you'll see, about the size of this area. [Ms. Midge motions to her dining and kitchen area] And then they grow, and then they get bigger, and they get bigger, and they get bigger, they get 50 members. But there's a message that the minister is giving to the people, that the people need it. It may be the grandmother, and it could be the children are not doing the right thing or whatever.

Almeta

Or she just wants to make sure that they stay on the right track and don't get—

Midge

That's right. This is where they teach the Bible. And, it keeps the family stable. That's where people go especially every Sunday around 11 o'clock.

Almeta

And don't forget Wednesday night Bible study.

Midge

Sometimes it's prayer meeting on Wednesday traditionally, or Friday is Bible reading. This is where they get their spiritual strength.

Almeta

It's the community. It's a communal thing.

Midge

That's right.

Almeta

Reaching back into our African roots. Where we come together.

Midge

This is what kept us even though—people come up from the south, most of Rochester is from different states in the South.

Almeta

Florida, South Carolina.

Midge

That's right. But this is where they would have their togetherness and the togetherness with the church which was very important. That storefront church was the center of the family. Children had Sunday school. They had Sunday school maybe an hour before the church service. All of this has kept the—

Almeta

Kept the family together.

Midge

Family together.

Almeta

Bonded the community.

Midge

Education, community, service agencies. That was all involved in this general area, the Northeast area. Baden Street and Conea came early.

Almeta

And the one thing about the storefront churches, they weren't necessarily part of a big denomination like the Baptist or the Methodist. Like you said when you first explained, it's a person. You said a man, but there was women because my Aunt Fanny was a jack leg preacher and she had her little storefront in Buffalo. Okay, so it would be a person who felt called by God to deliver the message a certain way.

Midge

They say a calling.

Almeta

That's it, a calling. And so they would, “Okay, I'll just make my own little church,” and people would follow them. And a lot of times in that storefront community, if somebody needed something, they just take up a little collection and if that wasn't enough, they have a bake sale.

Midge

That's right. And having those little chicken dinners.

Almeta

Chicken dinners! Oooo Fish fry.

Martha

I was going to say selling dinners.

Midge

Fundraising.

Almeta

Thank you, thank you. And it was community fundraising so that the community benefited.

Midge

That's right.

Almeta

Yes, indeed, and nobody had to worry too much about being cared for.

Midge

Sometimes now there's agencies that take care of the poor. But during those days when I was more active, should I say, it was the churches that kept families and especially young people, they all both intermarried from one family to the other because it was stable. You knew the parents and the parents knew their children, and the parents helped support the young marriage group.

Almeta

And the diversity of Northeast Rochester is what I recall was such love and fondness.

Midge

It was a natural love.

Almeta

Thank you. I mean, no matter where you came from, no matter what language you spoke, no matter what you look like, no matter what your color was, you found community.

Midge

That's right.

Almeta

I'm specifically thinking about—we're conversing about the church, the black church—I'm thinking about the catholic church with the white people, the Ukrainians, and the Russians. There was even Russians living here in the 50’s.

Midge

That's right.

Almeta

Yeah, and there's the shul, the synagogue, the congregation for the Jewish people and those places are still standing today.

Midge

And it was love, but you didn't call it love. It was a natural love.

Almeta

Exactly. It was community because we were all in the same boat.

Midge

That's right. Trying to make it.

Almeta

Exactly. And we knew that in order to move ahead, we had to come together as community, and not talk about differences, but talk about how we all could help one another move forward.

Midge

And most of the time you knew—you got to know each other. In some areas you don't know your neighbor. And you don't want to know your neighbor.

Almeta

But not back then.

Midge

But in that special area, you knew the people down the street, you knew them around the corner, and you could help. I know Freddie and I helped some of the young people in the general area for the educational problems.

Almeta

He was an excellent, excellent scholar and tutor.

Midge

We would find money to send them to college. Find scholarships, or the church would raise money for scholarships for the young folks to go to college and get their education. That's what the community is all about. You put the unity into the community. That's what it's all about.

Almeta

Ms. Midge, were you affiliated with the Negro Business and Professional Women's Club?

Midge

Yes, I was. I helped get it started.

Almeta

I know. I know. Cause guess what?

Midge

What's that?

Almeta

They gave me a full four year scholarship. All expenses paid.

Midge

See, this is the Rochester Club of the National Association of Negro Business and Professional Women. Belonging to a national—all over the country. But, the second meeting of getting this group together was right on Skuse Street.

Almeta

Hello, in your house.

Midge

In my house with Thelma Phillips and I talked about, I'm pulling these people together. I invited five or six people. She invited five or six people. We need ten people to start the club. And we got them right at my house. And that was about sixty five years ago. The club is still active.

Almeta

Yes. They gave me that scholarship in 1963? ‘64?

Midge

Yeah.

Almeta

It was either my sophomore or my junior year.

Midge

That's interesting that you're here to talk about how the club sent you to college.

Almeta

Oh no, they offered me the scholarship. I got pregnant and I turned it down. I don't know what was wrong with me, but I'm like, I done got pregnant and I got to work and take care of this baby. I had the Negro Business and Professional Women's scholarship. Full ride, four years to any college I wanted to go to. I had a Ralph Bunche Scholarship and East High, where I graduated from, would each year give two scholarships and they gave one of the two to me.

Midge

I helped start the Ralph Bunche Scholarship.

Almeta

Yes! That's why I know we got these connections.

Midge

That started from the NAACP educational committee. We had to write Ralph Bunche for permission to use his name.

Almeta

Thank you and he was such a generous man.

Midge

That's right. And Ralph Bunche scholarship was the largest scholarship fund in Rochester during that time.

Almeta

For black students, yes. Didn't he visit here? Once?

Midge

Yes, he did.

Almeta

Because I remember seeing it in the newspaper.

Midge

That's right. That's right. So all that is good history about Rochester.

Almeta

And it's Northeast Rochester because essentially that's where we lived.

Midge

That's right. That's right.

Almeta

Until other parts of the city opened up that was where we went.

Midge

That's right. Martha, do you have anything that you remember during those years?

Martha

Well, I certainly do remember getting a feel for what the motherland was like through Dr. Freddie Thomas and I saw all these people and all this beautiful dress and head pieces and I was like, “Where are they going?” You know? And so that stuck in my mind. And I was 13 at the time. And I said, one day I'll go to Africa and I never got there until 2012.

Almeta

But you got there.

Martha

But I got there, as a missionary.

Midge

Know where it started, we were selected from the United Nations, an International Living Program. This country had people from different parts of the world come to this country to understand how us Americans lived. For some reason, they selected Freddie and me, our house, to house some African diplomats when they came to us and wanted our support. This is for people of other countries to get a feeling of how we lived and they call it Experiment in International Living. So we housed them for maybe a few months and this is where Martha would see them going and coming in our home. The way they were dressed was their native fashion. That started another movement of how people in this city are wearing Afro-fashions now.

Freddie took the Boshoe Ibarro, one of the diplomats, over to Clarissa Street. Now the folks there, they went bananas. First thing they want to know, did the people in this country put shoes on you? The people in this country were telling people in Africa, American Black men are alcoholics, and the women wear short dresses, and the women sell their bodies. That's what us women’s reputation was.

Almeta

That's the lies that were put out there so that when people would come here from other countries, they were expecting that and found the truth and it's like, “Oh this is just like home. These are people. They're regular people.”

Midge

That's right, and they would tell us that the people in Africa-

Almeta

Come on now, “savages”.

Midge

We eat people and some other things, they're not educated. That's what we talk about.

Almeta

Exactly. Exactly. The lies that were perpetrated to keep us from coming together and becoming an international community.

Midge

Too late now.

Almeta

All right now.

Midge

Too late now. Because they ask our guests, “Did they give you shoes?” or “Did they put clothes on you?” Because they would tell them, “Oh you up in the trees with the monkeys.” All those lies that was told during that time, the guests that we had.

Almeta

They came to the Northeast.

Midge

That's right. Yeah, in the northeast area the guest was at the mayor's house, before he came to us. Our guest asked the mayor, “Where are the colored people?” The mayor says, “There's not many in Rochester.” He had taken a walk around the block to look for some brown skin. The mayor told him not many people in Rochester. When he came to us, he said, “Dr. Thomas, the mayor said there's not many people in Rochester. The people of color, will you take me, show me some other people?” He said the right thing that happened to be Dr. Freddie's soap box of studying history of black folks. So, Genesee Park, Genesee Street, and Clarissa Street, Joseph Avenue, this is where the African diplomats would meet a lot of us.

Almeta

And feel at home.

Midge

Remember, we started the dashiki, and the kaftan. That's when our folks started wearing it, because we wanted a connection. So that's very fashionable now, but that's how it started. It started with—

Almeta

Finding our roots.

Midge

Gene Lockhart, All Day Sunday.

Almeta

Uhuru. It was Uhuru first on Jefferson Avenue. Then they moved to Midtown Plaza and it was All Day Sunday, but it started out as Uhuru, the Swahili word for freedom.

Martha

That's right.

Midge

See, you go back. I know all that, you know what I'm telling you is the truth

Almeta

You are. That's why we want to get you on this film. We want to get you where people can come from all over the world and put their little cell phone up next to a little QR code and see and hear you dispensing authentic history. Insha! Genuineness, authenticity, and excellence. That's you.

Midge

Do you know, it's been my wish, not knowing about what's happening today, for me to express my experience before I close my eyes forever. To get this information out because I'm one of the few people in Rochester that I know of at 97 years old could give to what I say carry the torch of the history that I'm expressing what I experienced. And for you to bring this here is precious, not only to the other people, whatever I'm saying, but it's precious for me to let it out because for people like our guests here today.

Almeta

Who are very young.

Midge

And, the young lady over there. [Ms. Midge in reference to Ms. Martha’s granddaughter, Ky.]

Almeta

She's very young.

Midge

That's right. For her to know how—

Almeta

How it was.

Midge

We'll even go back to slavery time.

Almeta

Come on with it.

Midge

The people in this area know about that. They've been through it, to work all day long and get 25 cents.

Almeta

What? That much? Please.

Martha

Sometimes nothing.

Midge

What we had to do for survival.

Almeta

This has been wonderful Ms. Midge and we thank you for welcoming us into your home. You got two long time friends, and two new friends.

Midge

I'm honored to even have someone think of me. Do you know—

Almeta

She's the one. [Almeta in reference to Ms. Martha who initiated our connection to Ms. Midge.]

Midge

Do you know, next Monday, the 29th of April? You know about that? [Ms. Midge in reference to the introduction of her In This Moment chapbook.]

Almeta

Yes, I've got ten tickets.

Midge

Hallelujah.

Almeta

I've got ten tickets. I've got tickets for you, I've got tickets for you, I've got—yeah.

Midge

Do you know we're a sellout?

Almeta

Yes, it's sold out. 500 seats at the Dryden Theatre and the George Eastman House to honor Mrs. Midge Thomas and my mentor from when I was your age, darling, Dr. Walter Cooper.

Midge

That's right.

Martha

I bought my grandkids a ticket.

Almeta

He's regents chancellor New York. New York State Regents—

Midge

For the State of New York.

Almeta

And you both are gonna be honored for your life work

Midge

And George Eastman House is recording that, and the program will be available for those who can't make it. They can see the program later and it's an honor for them to take this and add it for the history of Rochester.

Almeta

And what you and Dr. Cooper are going to have, you're going to have these little books.

Midge

That's right and every person will get a new book. That's what it's all about. The concept is so beautiful. It's a nice way to spread the word.

Almeta

And giving honor to people, artists and community people. I'm in the next group. I'll be in the next group. Right after they honor you, I'm in the next group with Joe Beard. Blues man!

Midge

See, all that's important because it closes the gap of people saying, “Oh, I didn't know." See what was said, the teachers were not teaching the students what they should have been teaching. They said they didn't know our culture.

Martha

Well, they didn't. So, what happened. This movement is important.

Almeta

Exactly. And I also, I'm glad you brought that up, Ms. Midge, because a lot of people aren't aware that Rochester City School District went down south to the historically Black colleges and universities and hired graduates to come up here to be full time teachers in the Rochester City School District. That's how they got, Ms. Eldridge McClaney, they got James Perkins. There was so many of them spread out and the Rochester City School District became the number one school district in the country in terms of scores, graduation rates, and we got to get to the bakshish, we got to get to the money. It had the highest pay for teachers. Teachers all over the country was trying to get in here.

Midge

That's how Thelma Phillips came From Howard.

Almeta

Thank you, yes, exactly.

Midge

And Mildred Johnson.

Almeta

Mildred Johnson, she used to scare the living daylights out of me. “Almeta Whitis, Almeta Whitis. Come over here,” I'm like, “Oh no, oh no. She gonna try to get me to—” “We need you to work with the young people.” “Uh huh, uh huh,” and I'd be running. I'd be running cause Mildred was a force to be reckoned with. I was afraid she was gonna hurt me. She was so passionate.

Midge

She would go to the courts downtown and tell the judge those juvenile delinquent children—

Almeta

Don't put them in jail.

Midge

I'll take this child. I'll take this child. Leave them to me. I will help raise them. And she took and adopted some of them. And raised those young kids that were stealing or whatever.

Almeta

They were just trying to get by.

Midge

That's right. And she took them and raised them up to be college graduates.

Almeta

Thank you. And she would go to court and tell the judge, release them into my custody and they'll come back for their hearing so that they don't have to spend time in jail to wait to get judged. And they would always come back. And her work established the defender's office.

Midge

That's right.

Almeta

The Monroe County Defender's Office. That was because of what Ms. Mildred Johnson did. And making sure that young black men, for the most part, there may have been some girls, but young black men didn't have to sit in jail to wait for their hearing. They would go to her house and she would keep them in her house—

Midge

That's right.

Almeta

And give them work to do. She knew how to make you work. That's another reason why I would run. Cause, “Oh, she gonna be telling me to do all kind of work. I got to go.”

Midge

All that's good stuff.

Brandon

Is there a place to find her work? I'll have to look into it. I don't know if I told you, I'm part of the group Decarcerate ROC as well and part of it is trying to abolish the school to prison pipeline.

Almeta

Yes, we can work on that. Ms. Martha also has information about what Ms. Mildred Johnson did.

Martha

And she doesn't get enough recognition. I just feel like we never did our part.

Midge

Because her approach was—

Almeta

It was communal.

Midge

That's right.

Almeta

It was communal.

Midge

She was strictly for—

Almeta

And she wouldn't take no for an answer. She sat in that courtroom and wouldn't leave until the judge gave her what she wanted.

Martha

And she'd get up and talk. They didn't tell her to talk. It wasn't jer turn or anything. She just hopped up and started talking.

Almeta

But guess what? Did they tell her to shut up and sit down? No.

Midge

They were afraid of her.

Almeta

Thank you. She was big, she was Black, she was loud, and she was strong. And they were like, “No, no, just leave her alone. Just leave her alone.” She was definitely, a crusader for this community. She definitely was.

Martha

There's no doubt about that.

Almeta

Especially—she lived in Northeast Rochester.

Martha

Right next to our church Antioch Baptist Church. And Baden Street, old Baden Street.

Almeta

Yeah.

Midge

See, all that is important. Does this sound strange to you?

Katie

I don't think so.

Midge

It's nice to know.

Brandon

It sounds like—because I grew up in Hamlin, so I grew up in a suburb, we don't grow up with any of these stories. I don't hear about anything in my community because my community wasn't this closely knit. It's almost like I'm hearing a missing piece of something that is human.

And, it's like, oh, no, these things are possible. I'm going to go off on a tangent here. When we were at the event I brought you to in February, I think it was, Stanley Martin, the council woman, said that she, I don't remember what country she said she was from over in Africa, but she said that because of the slave trade, a lot of the men in her community were taken and it was a lot of women communities, and women run townships and whatnot like that, and when she came here, she was like, “No, we can do this outside of the U. S. imperialistic model. And the reason why I know that is because I can see it firsthand.” So hearing this, it's like, “Oh, I can change things because I'm hearing it firsthand because it has worked before.”

Almeta

And I want to just. Have Katie just speak a little bit about your work, and how it connects with this. Just off the top of your head.

Katie

Like the visionary fiction part?

Almeta

Well, that as well as the fact that you're going with your Anthropology. Cause it has to do with community and decarceration, all of that. Yeah, come on, girl.

Katie

Yeah, I'm going for my PhD in anthropology at some point and a lot of my interests, are tied to black feminism. Which, Mildred Johnson is a perfect example of that and so a lot of that is preservation, archiving, placemaking, so how we make connection to different spaces, systems of care, kinship. This is definitely heavily aligned with the work that I'm hoping to do.

Midge

That's interesting that you say you're working on your PhD degree. These are things that, when you're in that category, it's valuable for you to get first hand, experience.

See, this is how Dr. Freddie Thomas and I, when we were over in the neighborhood of hers, spreading the word and teaching young folks a better culture, to be valuable to the community and it worked for us.

Almeta

And it worked for the young people.

Midge

And it worked for the—there's engineers, there's all kinds of different professions that came out of that house, that Freddie Thomas would be speaking to a group of young folks, standing on the corner, drinking a little wine or whatever, and smoking and no motivation.

Almeta

Until they heard him. Then they got motivated.

Midge

Amen. I can say amen.

Almeta

Amen.

Midge

You know what that means? When people say amen. The church people.

Almeta

Let the church say, amen.

Midge

That means I agree with you.

Almeta

I agree. It means yes. It's a collective yes. It's a communal yes. It's a spiritual, grounded yes. Affirmation. Confirmation. And all that other good stuff.

Midge

Meaningful for our culture. Cause you don't hear that in some areas.

Martha

That's true.

Midge

And everybody knows, and you can say it right during the message being given. Somebody over in the corner—

Almeta

In the amen corner. That's what they call it. That's the yes corner and then the preacher know they on track, “Okay, amen, alright, I can keep going.” “Amen,” “Alright, oh, can I get a amen?” “Amen!” “Alright.”

Martha

That's true.

Midge

But it's spiritual, it's not—no one makes fun of it, they join it. That means I agree, and you're giving me something that I need to hear because my husband beat me up last night or whatever,

Almeta

Or we ain't got money for the rent.

Midge

That's right. Don't have money or he's got a girlfriend around the corner and all and I'm hurting. So when the minister is giving that motivation and spiritualness whatever you want to call it.

Almeta

It's called ministering.

Midge

That's what people say, amen. Because they're connected. They're connected to you. This is what community is about. You know, what you're doing not only with me and Ms. [Martha] Hope and all the rest of us, it's important. It's important to us because sometimes we're hurting inside because we've gone through a whole lot of stuff.

Almeta

Amen. Amen.

Midge

And to let it be out there, I have so many ideas of helping in different ways. I'm in the process, in fact Ms. Hope is too, we are in what we call, Liberty Pole Way makeover. We are improving this street as a role model for the city. They are aware of it. And Ms. Hope is on the process of honoring her mother. Did you know that? her mother fed so many thousand lunches.

Martha

400, 000 since 1997.

Midge

How many?

Martha

400, 000 since 1997.

Almeta

And Jesus fed the 5, 000 with the loaves and the fishes. And 400, 000? All right now, leave it to a black woman. Leave it to a black woman. Amen!

Midge

For one person to start that, what I call a movement, she took years feeding the needy. So, we're working on a bench in her memory. It's going to be on this street.

Almeta

On Liberty Pole Way.

Midge

On Liberty Pole Way, for people to know that her name is Ruby Harvey. I want to make sure everybody knows. Her name is Ruby Harvey and there's going to be a bench. I'm sort of crying. But anyways, this bench will be in memory of the thousands of people that she fed.

And the other is right outside, you'll see a cornerstone. That cornerstone was in the building across the street. I was the owner of that called Triangle Community Center and we took it out of there when we sold the building. And the corner store is right under that window.

Almeta

The Triangle Community Center was a huge influence in Rochester. Huge!

Midge

Amen.

Almeta

And when I say huge, I mean like the dinosaur. It was huge!

Midge

I also landscaped the whole front of Dr. Freddie Thomas school.

Martha

Don't forget Jane Pittman Fountain right up here.

Midge

Also, there's a two billion year old stone that's at Dr. Freddie Thomas school. It rolled down here from Canada. And then the other thing that I did was, I was sick with the flu one year, 1987, and I needed a medication, needed a pill to take medication for my condition, and had to pay for water, a styrofoam cup of water. I had to pay 10 cents at a restaurant, which I did, and when I was walking home from Midtown, I had to think other people may be downtown and need medication and they have to pay for it. I'm going to do something about it. So I started a committee of 81 people and asked them to help me raise funds for a public drinking fountain.

I went to city hall, Environmental Department, told Ed Dougherty, I want to give a public drinking fountain to the community. So he started working on it. He had to find out where to tap the water and go through the process, find out underground about doing what he had to do. I went to Downtown Development Corporation and said I want to give a fountain but I don't know what kind of fountain to give to the community. They paid for a research all over the world, different fountains. Paid $30, 000 for the research to find out what fountains—Japan, Germany, South America, all the countries around the world. We happened to see this one here. And they said, “Ms. Thomas, we have the research and you pick out what you want.” I ended up getting the fountain that's there. And then I had the unveiling of the fountain. What happened was, a couple days before the unveiling of the fountain, I saw a lady giving a dog some water, and then I saw a policeman getting a drink, and I saw them children getting a drink with a skateboard, and coming home I said, “I'm supposed to have the first drink, the mayor and me, supposed to have the first drink, and they're getting water before we have the—,” you know, big me.

Martha

Gotta think big.

Midge

I was walking down the street here. And I have this—“Midge, that fountain is doing what it's supposed to do, and why are you feeling like you're supposed to take the first drink?”

Almeta

Exactly. Why did you do it? Why did you do it? You did it because it was to help people, and dogs, and policemen.

Midge

I have a photo here, 7, 000 people was out there. The photo that I have is 7, 000 people sharing.

Almeta

So you got that recognition.

Martha

Did what you needed to do.

Almeta

You got that recognition and the city is blessed. People are blessed. Dogs are blessed. Policeman. Popo is blessed.

Martha

Wait a minute. Amen.

Midge

But you're right. A dog needed some water and a blind lady fed her dog.

Almeta

That's a helping dog, and they work hard.

Midge

I never thought about the water fed a dog.

Almeta

Helping dog. That dog was working.

Midge

And it's just because some lady said, “You have to pay for the cup.”

Almeta

10 cents for a cup that costs what? .5%? .

Midge

I said water is free, I said water is free. When I tell her water is free and she tell me I got paid pay for the—

Almeta

Styrofoam cup.

Midge

For a styrofoam cup. And that fountain is 37 years old now, since 1989.

Martha

It's right up the street. It's a beautiful fountain. We celebrate it every year.

Midge

But all that is important. I have in my records, I have a photo of me and, Sondra Lewis, me and a white lady taking a drink of the fountain together. What I'm saying to you, you have an opportunity to do what they call documenting, orwhat you're doing with your writing.

Almeta

Archiving.

Midge

Like we say, this is the history of Rochester that's going down as a—I don't know what you want to call it, but people are going to ask about it. And what you're doing is making sure it's in black and white because the things that we are doing, it's no big deal with us. It was no big deal for me to do this. That's what we do. But it is a big deal when we think about the only person that Rochester celebrates big time is Frederick Douglass. And we did a whole heap of stuff more than what Frederick Douglass. So, this is what you're doing, not only what I've done.

I have a record of 200 agencies that we subsidize for them to help other folks through the Freddie Thomas Foundation. The foundation happens to be a group of people helping people, the agencies who are helping those who need help. And that's a lot of power. And there's no big deal what I did across over there, and the fountain, and the landscaping, and then this and that. It was easy.

Almeta

You saw a need and you filled it, and most importantly, you were able to corral. You got your cadre, you got your cohorts, you got your people to march along with you to make sure that this was done and completed for the good of the community. Which is what we're talking about with this whole thing. How we created and maintained and make sure that there's something here for the young people like this cute little one over here. [Almeta in reference to Ky.]

Midge

She [Ky] is really receiving from Martha something that's valuable. I can see her doing something in the community that she's going to be a very important young lady for her future. She's not going to be running the streets and she's not going to be not doing her homework at school. She's got a goal to reach that what Martha has given her, taking her around different programs and she sees us older folks, and she listens to us, and she's going to add something to the City of Rochester that is very important.

Almeta

And you don't even know it, baby. When Mildred Johnson would corral me and I would run. I had no idea that old lady knew what I was going to be doing. And I'm close to 80, and I've been doing this work for 60 years. She saw it in me when I was your age.

Midge

And she's going to do something. She's not going to be wasting her time.

Martha

She's not. We won't allow that. She'll stay on the honor roll. Next month, she's going to be celebrated and honored for her academics.

Almeta

Are you a valedictorian, darling?

Ky

I don't think we do that in our school.

Almeta

Are you honor society?

Ky

No, not yet.

Almeta

I like that you got the not yet on it. Work on it, baby. Work on it. It shocked me to no end to find out that my high school gave one of their scholarships to me. At that time, East High School was 98% white and this little Black girl got a scholarship. And that was after I was suspended for not saluting the flag.

Martha

It was written from the beginning, Almeta.

Almeta

And, what was his name? Can't remember what his name was. I see his little round face. And my mother and my stepfather came and they said, “She is not saluting the flag because the salute is a lie.” One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I'm like, no. This was 1963. No, it isn't.

Midge

Not justice for all.

Almeta

And he's like, “Well, I understand and I can appreciate and I'm not telling you not to say it, but there are people that come here from other countries and they come to the ball games or whatever and they don't say the Pledge of Allegiance, they don't sing My Country Tis of Thee, but they stand as a sign of respect, Almeta. Can you at least just stand? You don't have to say it. You don't have to put your hand over your heart and pledge, but just stand up.” I said, “Okay, I can do that.” He said, “Well then, welcome back.”

Midge

That's an issue, you were that bright then.

Almeta

No, I was militant. No. I had been taught by Dr. Cooper, and Gus Newport, and Ernest Denning, and Connie Mitchell, and Nan, and Reverend Obadiah Williams.

Martha

Yes, OB.

Almeta

Yeah, OB. Oh yeah. I was militant, 15 years old and militant to the core.

Martha

Again, connecting to our roots. You gotta—we need that so much.

Mario

Revolution has come!

Martha

It's coming up.

Midge

But all that is important, to get this information out. Because there's one thing people don't want to know, some people, you will find that out. They will say that it stirs up from the gut of people's hearts, especially with whites and blacks. They want to put it under the table because their grandpa took the hose.

Almeta

Come on. Come on.

Midge

You saw that. Our grandparents, the mother and father took the dogs, and the water hose, sprayed it on you for standing up for justice for standing up for the right of others. So somewhere, this is reality.

Brandon

And they still do that. You've been keeping up with the Columbia University students.

Martha

But we've always fought. We've always fought whether we know the language or the locality, but we always fought.

Almeta

And we would fight in different ways, but we never laid down because if we did we would not be sitting here talking about this today and documenting it for posterity.

Martha

I love it. I just love it.

Almeta

Because we never give up.

Martha

Thank you, Brandon. Thank you, Katie. Thank you, Almeta. I love it.

Almeta

We never give up. Oh, no. Thank you. Because you're the one that brought Midge to me. I'm like, Oh, yeah, Midge—and you are a goldmine of information about what made Northeast Rochester, all of Rochester, a community. And it started in the Northeast.

Midge

And see what happens, what the two of you have that's the most valuable knowledge and resource that we have. Cause we go day by day, it's no big deal. We're just doing our thing. But it does need to be recorded and it needs to be so that everybody will be informed.

Almeta

Ashe they can't say they don't know.

Midge

Some will change their hearts because they think going down to the left or to the right or whatever, they think that their only thinking is one journey and they don't know that we've woken up.

Almeta

Yeah, it's a journey of millions.

Midge

And justice is important. And it has nothing to do with what you think, what I think. Right is right and wrong is wrong, no matter who. And for those policemen in Mississippi and wherever else, in the south—

Martha

North too.

Almeta

Yep. It's actually still prevalent, living in a police state

Midge

For them to kill people, and put them in jail, and hang them in the tree.

Almeta

Now they put 'em jail and use them. Firefighters, firefighters are incarcerated men, and they don't even get paid. But they pull them out of jail, tell them to go. When they get the big fires, “Y'all go and help put out the fire,” and they're not even paid for it.

Brandon

That's also furniture creators too. A lot of IKEA stuff, made with prison labor.

Midge

See, all that is happening, and some of it is happening now, but in a subtle way. I've gone in stores, I can go in a store right now, with you, beside you and see a clerk who's doing something, she sees me right there she busy doing this. [Ms. Midge pretends to fold/stock items.] I can do this right now. So it's showing I see you, but I'm not paying you any attention.

Martha

We're invisible.

Almeta

You don't count. Yesterday, can't remember where I got it from, but there's a photo of a Swedish dock worker, maybe in 1907, removing the shackles from an African man who had been enslaved.

Martha

Praise God.

Almeta

1907. Yeah, it was a Facebook thing. And I said, and it's still going on today.

Martha

More sophisticated, but it's going on.

Almeta

Yeah. And it's not just African people. It's all kinds of people from all over the world. And they go to these countries, they take their little passport and their visas and keep them. Put them up in horrible conditions and then don't even pay them. They don't even pay them. Dubai, Saudi Arabia.

So anyway, we are going to make our goodbyes and make our way over to Dolores if we can call her.

Midge

What I would like to do is I'd like to have your name and your phone number, and then there's a card there for you to take.